social.noyu.me

serious question: should i set up a patreon etc

the main reason i do not have one right now is that i would suddenly be a “small business” in the eyes of accounting law, the tax agency and probably my bank, and so i would have to invest quite a bit of time, effort and money into being able to receive money. and who knows if i will even break even!! also i'd feel pressure to live up to expectations tbh

also i hardly deserve the money compared to others

i've managed to finally convince myself “running a small business” won't be so bad. so, next week, i'll try to start setting up things so i can properly receive donations!

when you register a business, you have to provide a five-digit code that says what kind of work you do, for statistical purposes. for example this:

(”verksamhet” ~= business, ”fristående” = independent)

they got back to me and told me i am in fact not a business lmao

well that makes my life immensely easier for the moment

okay so i've done the things now

if you want me to “shut up and take [your] money” then you can now do so at https://liberapay.com/hikari_no_yume

i have also applied to use GitHub Sponsors but that'll take a few days before it's approved, i guess.

i'm very grateful for any support (but don't feel any obligation! i'm not in any financial hardship, but not having any income is not sustainable indefinitely of course)

@hikari as in, you don’t have to formally be a business to receive patreons?

@0xabad1dea for pure donations, yes, but I don't know if Patreon The Service really counts as that because most people give perks to their patreons

@0xabad1dea as much as I'm probably losing out for this, I don't want to use Patreon because their whole concept makes me very uncertain how the income from it would be classified, especially considering Patreon charge VAT. GitHub Sponsors and Liberapay are more clearly donations in the pure sense.

@0xabad1dea btw Sweden has this nice thing called a ”hobbyverskamhet” (~= hobby business) which means if you have a small side thing that isn't very profitable alongside your main job, you can file taxes for it easily in your annual tax return, without the normal accounting requirements for business. Patreon The Service almost certainly falls under that category for anyone not earning a living off it, in my (NOT A LAWYER) opinion. but you see, I am unemployed, so I'm a bit more careful.

@hikari @0xabad1dea the Patreon VAT thing has me very confused, indeed. Like why are patrons being charged VAT, when I am not registered for it? At least the classification is simple here in DK – everything you get is considered taxable income.

@kanongil @0xabad1dea normally VAT responsibility would be passed on to the next party in the chain based on their contribution to the value of a product, hence “Value Added” Tax, but for some reason that's not how Patreon operates. maybe it's to make it easier for the “creators” who then don't have to worry about it? honestly I'd love it if a VAT lawyer would tell me if this is even supposed to be a thing a business can do

@kanongil @0xabad1dea some further context as I, not a lawyer, understand it, about Sweden:

• Donations are not covered by VAT, because there's no exchange going on. you know, “money can be exchanged for good and services”. VAT is on sales.
• Donations are taxable income if you're a creator of some sort. Gifts are tax-free, but this type of donation isn't considered as a gift.
• If I'm only taking donations, not selling goods or services, it's easier to argue I don't have a “profit motive” and a lot less requirements apply to me. Patreon charging VAT has unsettling implications therefore.

@hikari @0xabad1dea per their FAQ, they are the B2C contact point and are responsible for the patron VAT. There is no VAT for payments to creators since you are a dealing with the US entity. https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047578411-EU-Creator-Frequently-Asked-Tax-Questions

@kanongil @0xabad1dea ohh so that's why they don't pay VAT… that makes sense.

@hikari @0xabad1dea This constellation does have the unfortunate side effect of having to charge VAT to patrons, even though the patron wouldn’t always have to do so if Patreon was just a payment processor.

@hikari do you have a separate phone number for your business?
When I became a business I didn't and most of my phone calls nowadays turn out to be spam 🥲